STORY MATCHING? INTENTIONAL METAPHORS? How can you avoid putting people in boxes? Or move past how an experience made you feel to appreciate what it did for you? Andrew Webb returns to share several “Micro-Behaviors” that can boost your emotional intelligence. Check out Andrew’s excellent podcast at: https://mymicrobehaviors.com/the-pod/
”When I feel the desire to judge somebody - for whatever reason - I think of one outlandish, crazy, creative scenario or situation they could be facing... What you're doing is distracting yourself from the impulse to put people in boxes.”
Tyler Small: Today, we're back with Andrew Webb! I'm so excited. Andrew is going to tell us three specific micro-behaviors... And again, that's the name of his podcast. I have been listening to this podcast. It's fantastic; super engaging, super fun. And you learn about emotional intelligence and how to design behavior to improve your success in every aspect of life. It's very cool.
Today Andrew is going to tell us three specific micro-behaviors; so these are little tiny things that you can do to foster emotional intelligence.
Andrew, welcome back.
Andrew Webb: Oh my goodness. So excited to be here, Tyler.
Tyler Small: Yes. So tell us: What is the first micro-behavior?
Andrew Webb: Right. So I think the last time we talked a little bit about Carl Akeley and how quick we were to judge not only people in the past, but the people that surround us. And it's a great trigger for all of us. And we've got to get really careful about how quickly we make snap judgements without considering their situation.
And so what I ask, in this first episode I talk about as a micro-behavior, that really is invoking the creative state. And it's that sacred state of creativity that helps you just take a different approach when you interact with people and you have that quick impulse to judge. So that's the trigger.
When I feel the desire to judge somebody - for whatever reason - I think of one outlandish, crazy creative scenario or situation they could be facing. And the focus is identifying as crazy as you can get, because the more creative you get, the more fun it becomes. All of a sudden your energy mentally is focused on becoming more creative, thinking about something that's so outlandish that all of a sudden what they just did to make it really bad takes backseat. Or what they said about your mom isn't nearly as important as finding ways to be creative. And that's why invoking that sacred state of creativity can be a wonderful, I would just say, hack for emotional intelligence.
Tyler Small: So where do you say this... When you describe this moment, taking the moment, I think about when I'm driving to the car... And I thought it was just a jerky thing to do. Somebody is like going super slow in front of me; or like the other day there was a semi-truck that was two feet over the line. We were in a construction zone. And so the lanes were super narrow and I was like, what is going on here? He kept coming over into my lane. Five little kids in the back seat, right? And I thought... So sometimes I'm like, Oh, it must be their first day or, Oh, they're probably... And so my story was, Oh, he's probably having a stroke.
Andrew Webb: Such a good one. Let's see. I would say... okay, you start thinking of details. And your mind can do this so fast, that's what's so powerful about the mind. You can do this in seconds. Not only does he have a stroke, but it's, it's a congenital issue that his dad dealt with. And his dad was always somebody that loved alcohol. And all of a sudden the alcohol actually was part of the family brand...
I mean, whatever, all of a sudden your mind is going on 10 different tangents, because what it's doing, it's creating a story and it may or may not be true. It doesn't matter. That's not the point. What you're doing is distracting yourself from the impulse to put people in boxes. It's a quick way to do that.
Tyler Small: I love it. Was it Abraham Lincoln - or am I making this up - that said I assume that someone is having a bad day about half the time; and half the time, I'm right. Something like that?
Andrew Webb: I've heard variations of that, but it's a good maximum for life because the truth is we are all struggling. And it may or may not relate to our situation, the situation we're in with that person. But giving them the benefit of the doubt gives you just a moment to breathe. Get your senses and then identify the humanity perhaps in somebody.
Tyler Small: Okay. I want to, I want to push back for those in the audience who may be thinking: But if I don't nail them for the injustice that they're creating, they're going to cream my vehicle, or they're going to gain power over my role in the workplace. Like, they're gonna make me look bad. Like they're, um, they're, they're a flop.
They're going to destroy our company because you know, I have to judge them and nail them for, for every injustice that I perceive. What would you say to those who might be thinking something like that?
Andrew Webb: I think that's a very human response. To be real honest. I think we all feel that.
Tyler Small: Are you making up a story about me right now?
Andrew Webb: No. I'm thinking of a story about what literally happened to me in a meeting before this conversation. I was in a meeting where we were training a number of managers, and - I hope he doesn't hear this - but there was a person who, um, came, and he wasn't engaging. Not only that... it was like he was gritting his teeth .And he looked so distracted, and it was impacting how others kind of had these discussions in the meeting. And I'm thinking, Who is this guy? What is his deal? Well, 15 minutes into the meeting, we have a breakout and it's just me and him. All right, here we go. I don't want to do this. And then he says, and then he comes off mute and he says to me, I'm sorry, I just got back from the dentist and I can't talk. And I'm thinking, okay, Andrew, you've got a lot to learn still.
So I needed that micro-behavior, to be honest.
Tyler Small: I love it. So the first micro-behavior is, create a story in your mind. Generate something that could possibly justify this individual - doesn't have to be true. Just think of some, some logical reason that could rationalize their actions.
Andrew Webb: Yeah. And the emphasis is get creative, have fun with it, make it a competition, make it a game because you're using a different part of the brain at that point.
Tyler Small: I love it. Oh, I love it. And make it specific. Okay. What's number Two.
Andrew Webb: Okay. Number Two is a story. I tell people - In one of my episodes, we talk about a boxer named Andy Bowen, who around the turn of the century fought in a boxing match that was the longest boxing match on record. Now this was before Queensberry Rules were introduced. And I won't give away the secrets, but I will just say it lasted well over seven hours. And if you can match the blood, the guts, the grit this guy had to get through it. But here's the funny thing: As you read this story today on sports blogs and you talk to different sports writers, they love telling the story, right? Because it's a Rocky story, right? It just matters.
Well, the truth is, if you go a little deeper on the research, there's much more to the story. And that's the truth about all stores. They have such a powerful impact that we pick and choose what elements matter and why.
And then I talk a little bit about what happened to him a year later as a result of the fight, and how perhaps boxing wasn't nearly as glorious as we made it out to be - as he got punched one more time and died in the ring. And all of the sudden the glory, the "fight for what you believe in" mentality, the Rocky music, and the inspiration - doesn't seem so glorious.
And in this episode, I just really refer to what I call "micro-behavior story matching." So that's the micro-behavior.
But I ask people just to be a little deliberate about what stories they want to tell and why. So before important events, just write down three elements of that story that you want to emphasize. And there's a real, powerful impact the stories have. Researchers have done a lot of work on this, and the literature shows us that when we hear a person's story - as I'm telling you just real quickly this story about Andy Bowen, into boxing match, getting punched in the nose, your mind through mirror neurons (is what they call them) is literally recreating the story for you as if you're experiencing it yourself.
So if I'm telling a story about - and they've done, and they tell this quick story, it's a one line: John picked up the ball, right? Okay. John kicks the ball. That's the story they told them. Well, if somebody hears that, not only are they hearing the language process thing of "John kicked a ball," but they're also using the motor responses in their brain, where their leg is involved as if they were kicking the ball themselves.
Stories are so powerful. We underestimate their impact. And that's why story matching, this micro-behavior, draws in the power of stories to help influence and communicate your message to people.
Tyler Small: "Story matching."
Andrew Webb: Yup.
Tyler Small: So, why do they call it story matching? You're thinking of a story and you're...
Andrew Webb: Yeah, yeah - good question. I call it story matching because you want to identify - if you just listen to the episode - I call it this because you want to identify the situation and the outcome you're looking for, and then match a story that may help you get there - the key imagery, the strong imagery that will help convey that message.
Tyler Small: I am not following.
Andrew Webb: So if you match - you're matching a story to a situation. That's what you're doing, matching a story to the situation.
Tyler Small: Oh, and so what kind of situation would we do this in?
Andrew Webb: Any situation that you're hoping to have a better impact or create more effective communication. So that could be at lunch with your estranged brother. That could be trying to convince a boss of a new project. That could be convincing your wife that it's worth it to go fish in Alaska. All of those are important situations that you're hoping for an outcome. The best way to do that is effectively tell a story.
Tyler Small: I see it. So story matching is just like bringing a story that matches with those specific elements that you're looking for. So figuring out, okay, what does this person need to feel? What do I want to help this person feel? And then bringing a story that helps them feel that way.
Andrew Webb: Correct. That's a good way of putting it.
Tyler Small: Let's go to the third one.
Andrew Webb: The third one, I thought that might be helpful is creating what we call "intentional metaphors." In this episode, I really refer to a famous metaphor that we use all the time. And that is time is money. Well, what's ironic about when we use these metaphors is not only does that help us create a better understanding of two very different concepts: both time, which has nothing to do with the financial currency; and money, right, which has nothing to do with the way we perceive longevity and our experiences through life. So all of a sudden these two things are coming together. But it's a wonderful element of what they call the neural theory of language - how language not only impacts how we see the world, but the way we act within it.
And so when we create experiences or when we look back on our experiences, whether we recognize it or not, we're often creating metaphors for what those experiences were.
So let me give you a quick example. I, once, with my dad, invested in a startup. We had no business investing in a startup. I can tell you now it was a mistake after the fact. We didn't know the industry at all. But I was looking forward to the idea of just being with my dad, working on a project together and having what was a passive investment? Well, we overestimated the capacity of the founders. They really didn't understand what perhaps they had communicated. And we thought that their experience would help them, but it wasn't the right kind of experience. That meant we were going to lose a hefty chunk of money. So we came in and we had to kind of dismiss all of our other projects, other jobs, and work full time at this to try and salvage an investment.
Tyler, It was such a brutal experience where we had to learn an industry. Learn a product we basically didn't know about. We made so many mistakes. I got so - I took psychological ownership of the investment. I started to get ulcers. I lost 20 pounds with stress. And in the end, when we looked at each other - We had one more shot, and I remember my dad explicitly saying to me, Son, look, we can close the doors and just take a haircut or we can give him one more shot.
And we decided to give it one more shot. We decided to do everything our way as opposed to how else the other founders were doing it. And we've got a great designer and we designed a really fabulous product that helps people keep their habits on weight loss, which was the product at the time. And just as we did that, we started to get momentum. And the second we got momentum, Tyler we sold, right? We sold that baby - get out!
But it was such a brutal experience. And I told the experience often using language that related it as a battle. That experience was a battle for me. And as a result, I now not only saw that experience as battle, but the behaviors I took with people - I would go into meetings with founders now with armor, right? These are people who had startup companies that had nothing to do with that experience, but I had armor.
Or I remember an experience where I looked in the mirror during it, and my face was sunken in. My weight was way down. I had gray under my eyes. And I looked in the mirror and felt beaten.
Tyler Small: Oh.
Andrew Webb: Do you hear the language? How the language we use impacts how we perceive not only the experience itself, but also what we do as a result and the kinds of behaviors we're willing to take. And so "intentional metaphors" is a micro-behavior; and I help people walk through a process where they can re-language their experiences for, instead of identifying ways that the experience made them feel, you identify what the experience did for you. And creating metaphors around them as well.
Tyler Small: Wow.
Andrew Webb: So to give you an idea of what I did for this one: As I go through the process, think of different ways that this experience did positive things in my life. What were some of the positives that came from it? And then I think about, well, okay. What are the potential metaphors about those positives?
Well, one of the things that it did for me is it taught me patience. What are some of the things that teach patience? Well, you're going to the doctor, waiting in line, that takes patience. Going to the DMV. And all of those are great potential metaphors of some kind. And then I thought, you know, what else? Going to church as a little kid, if that was always tough. And you just know when to do intentional metaphors: okay, that's it.
So this, the new metaphor for instead of a battle, the new metaphor for me was, this investment experience was like a child sitting through church. And do you know what happens as a result? As I go and think about my own experiences now with founders, I'm not going in with armor.
I'm thinking about trying to soak in the information from a founder or somebody whose company, right? I’m eager to learn. Or if I talk to people now with interesting personalities that may be similar, I don't see them as egos like I may have been, or an adversary, right? That adversarial language. Instead, I see them as potential speakers; they're giving a talk that I'm gonna learn something from.
The language matters. How we describe the language of our life has an impact on the behaviors we would like to adopt as a result.
Tyler Small: Oh, I love it. And I think Brené Brown would be proud taking off the armor when we walk into meetings.
Andrew Webb: Taking off the armor - great point! I love it.
Tyler Small: I see you in, in a meeting, and you always have a little notebook. You're always taking notes. As if it were a speaker at a Ted Talk. You're always acting as if it, you were at a Ted talk like, Oh, this is great. Just like, you're always, you're always learning something.
Andrew Webb: But think about it, though. The way you frame these experiences...
Here's what's true - John Dewey refers to this: We don't learn from our experiences. We learn from reflecting on our experiences.
Tyler Small: Oh, I love that. That's very cool.
Andrew Webb: So, hopefully those will help your listeners. Those are some ones that we talk about in our different episodes. I think that might be a start.
Tyler Small: Yes! So for more context, go to the Micro-Behaviors Podcast. It is excellent. It's highly produced. And it's powerful - it'll suck you right in. You'll want to listen to every episode.
Andrew, this has been such a pleasure and I look forward to hopefully doing it again sometime.
Andrew Webb: Oh, it's been such a treat. Thank you my friend.
Tyler Small: I'm Tyler Small, and this is Hacking Emotional Intelligence.